This discussion took place on IFMud on the evening on November 18th, 2011. Doug Orleans kicked it off by posting a message, in-character as the author of "Last Day of Summer": ------------------------------- Subject: The man with the hat No one has yet put together the full truth. Will the man with the hat ever be redeemed? (signed) Lyman Clive Charles, Pam Comfite, Cameron Fox, and Edmund Wells. ------------------------------- I took a small part in the discussion (as myself, pretending to be an innocent bystander). I provided no material aid, of course. I did intervene at one point, to hint to people that decompiling the games would provide complete spoilers, but I didn't go beyond that. [comp11] maga says, "oho, metapuzzle" [comp11] murphy_slaw asks, "que?" [comp11] maga | No one has yet put together the full truth. Will the man with the hat ever be redeemed? [comp11] maga |(signed) Lyman Clive Charles, Pam Comfite, Cameron Fox, and Edmund Wells. [comp11] McMartin asks, "... Wait, so, does this mean that the Gentleman with the Hat was suppose to be Mr. Lidell?" [comp11] murphy_slaw asks, "Can you describe the hat?" [comp11] inky asks, "does this mean some of the games in the comp were secretly related?" [comp11] inky says, "because if so, awesome" [comp11] baf says, "Well, he's from a family of hatters." [comp11] baf exclaims (at inky), "Like the Shade reference in Being Andrew Plotkin!" [comp11] McMartin says (to inky), "Given the attitude in the authors' forum in 2010... this is something I wouldn't put past a lot of them." [comp11] maga says, "people did notice the hat thing, but it didn't occur to me that they're all from pseudonymous-looking authors" [comp11] baf says, "OK, remind me what all these people wrote. Wells did Doctor M." [comp11] DavidW says, "argh. I suspect I'm being spoiled on games I haven't played yet." [comp11] * DavidW has left the channel. [comp11] murphy_slaw says, "Comfite did Playing Games" [comp11] baf says, "OK, Playing Games certainly had a mysterious stranger." [comp11] McMartin asks, "Hrm. DavidW raises a point. Is there somewhere we should do this that's safer?" [comp11] murphy_slaw says, "With an indescribable hat" [comp11] Jota says, "#comp-spoilers" [comp11] inky says, "apparently we got rid of that" [comp11] inky says, "I wonder why" [comp11] Jota says, "Huh." [comp11] zarf says, "could make a new channel" [comp11] maga says, "#hatmystery" [comp11] zarf says, "hee" [comp11] McMartin says, "Lyman Clive Charls did Cold Iron" [comp11] McMartin says, "And Cameron Fox did Last Day of Summer" [comp11] baf says, "I don't remember a hat in Cold Iron either, unless you count the wreath." [comp11] McMartin says, "Liddell is not on that list." [comp11] McMartin says, "So he's not the Man In The Hat, most likely." [comp11] Jota asks, "I guess McM is protesting #hatmystery?" [hatmystery] * vimes has joined the channel. [hatmystery] * baf has joined the channel. [hatmystery] * zarf has joined the channel. [hatmystery] vimes | Where's My Hat (Mystery Picture Book) [hatmystery] baf says, "OK. Last Day of Summer had the guy who trades you an indescribable hat for a knife." [hatmystery] baf asks, "The only hat I remember in Doctor M is the bowler hat M wears in the alley scene. Did the grey man also have one?" [hatmystery] maga says, "you have to retrieve his indescribable hat, yes" [hatmystery] * katre has joined the channel. [hatmystery] katre says, "I wore a fedora today!" [hatmystery] katre says, "two different people at starbucks felt the need to make a joke about a guy wearing a trenchcoat and a fedora ordering an old-fashioned donut" [hatmystery] baf says, "So, Cold Iron, Last Day of Summer, Playing Games, and Doctor M." [hatmystery] maga says, "I think it's safe to say that these are all by pseudonymous authors" [hatmystery] * genericgeekgirl has joined the channel. [hatmystery] * katre has left the channel. [hatmystery] maga says, "and at least two of them are short enough that we could be dealing with less than four authors, total" [hatmystery] baf asks, "If they're all by the same person, it's a violation of comp rules, isn't it? Three max per author?" [hatmystery] * maga has changed the topic to: spoilers for Cold Iron, Last Day of Summer, Playing Games, and Doctor M [hatmystery] * McMartin has joined the channel. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "No, just confused." [hatmystery] * maga has renamed the channel from #unclassified/hatmystery to #if/comps/comp11/hatmystery. [hatmystery] maga says, "three of them take place in similar-feeling forest settings" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "In each game, that I recall, except Cold Iron, which I don't, he gives you something." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "A golden chain, a shining stone, and the hat itself." [hatmystery] * Doug has joined the channel. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also a hatpin and daffodil with the chain, but those seem to be incidental and he doesn't recognize them as his." [hatmystery] baf says, "The kid in Last Day of Summer could easily be the man in the hat in one of the other games." [hatmystery] maga says, "and at least two of them involve reverends" [hatmystery] baf says, "Could be the same reverend." [hatmystery] McMartin says (to baf), "He could become the next man in the hat, but if there's only one, it seems more likely that the man in the hat gave the hat to the kid" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "The stranger gives him the hat in exchange for something, right?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yeah, a knife." [hatmystery] maga says, "there's also a knife in Cold Iron" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "During which he doesn't have a hat. The player returns it to him in Doctor M." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That puts the ordering as Games -> Summer -> Iron -> Doctor" [hatmystery] baf says, "In Cold Iron, the guy who gives you a knife for his lost watch-glass is wearing an absurd hat." [hatmystery] maga says, "in one ending to Doctor M., the player takes the place of the hat-wearer." [hatmystery] maga asks, "what does he give you in Doctor M?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Or joins the cadre of same, yeah." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "He gives you a golden chain to put on your pocket watch." [hatmystery] maga says, "oho" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And it's a pocket watch that you give the man in the hat in playing games" [hatmystery] * Miseri has joined the channel. [hatmystery] baf asks, "So, wait. In Cold Iron, you exchange a watch-glass (which you find) for a knife. In Summer, you exchange a found knife for a hat. In Doctor M, you exchange a hat for a watch-chain. And in Playing Games, you exchange an entire eatch for a stone, right?" [hatmystery] zarf asks, "is this worth a wiki page?" [hatmystery] baf says, "s/eatch/watch/" [hatmystery] maga says, "and in Playing Games... he also needs a pocketwatch" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I thought a watch-glass was like a spyglass of some kind." [hatmystery] zarf says, "I can't volunteer, I have to wrestle with iphone code" [hatmystery] baf says, "I think it's significant that in each case you're exchanging a lost object you find lying around for something." [hatmystery] zarf says, "I am idling and listening here" [hatmystery] maga says, "aha, in Playing Games you find the man's lost pocketwatch" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And he insists you set it to noon. I'm not sure if that matters." [hatmystery] * murphy_slaw has joined the channel. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I might be able to volunteer in about four hours if someone else hasn't already done it yet" [hatmystery] maga says, "and then he gives you a glowing moonstone for returning it" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The concept of redemption is a bit odd, though" [hatmystery] baf says, "OK, I remember noticing that you could set the time on the watch in Doctor M, but there didn't seem to be any use for this." [hatmystery] baf says, "The watch in Playing Games is set to ten to five. Perhaps something happens when you set the Doctor M watch to that." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Sentencing of Mr. Lidell wasn't on the list, but I keep coming back to how a lot of this seems to track him" [hatmystery] maga says, "people on the forums mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13_Clocks " [hatmystery] baf says, "Is it plausible that the moonstone from Playing Games is the watch-jewel? That would make it cyclical." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's a good thought. I've been trying to find endpoints, but the cycle is clean." [hatmystery] maga | A small rounded piece of polished moonstone. It is a clouded white. Incredibly, it appears to be giving off light. [hatmystery] Miseri says, "Man. Now I wish I'd put a hat in Cana. Then all this talk about redemption...." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ha ha ha" [hatmystery] maga says (to Miseri), "I was wondering about Beet the Devil, too" [hatmystery] maga says, "Cold Iron:" [hatmystery] maga | You've found a pale glass bead, lying half-hidden in the mulch under the oak. Even in the forest shadow, it seems to glow a little. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's pretty solid" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Hmmmmm" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I wonder if the games will let us try to sequence-break." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Say, in Doctor M, if we set the watch to noon and give it to him right there." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Or ask him about cold iron" [hatmystery] maga | There are four brothers, and they go through four doors... [hatmystery] maga says, "(the story about the knife in Cold Iron)" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Wait" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Do any of these men have a known birthday? Can we find their Life?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Er, their Biography, rather" [hatmystery] baf says, "Doctor M involves four doors in one." [hatmystery] maga | The third brother waas as lost as lost could be, but he remembered the knife he'd gotten from the tinker. [hatmystery] maga says (to McMartin), "all except Dr. M are carefully ambiguous about their time-period" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And the brothers don't have names." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Hmmm" [hatmystery] baf says, "The watch in Doctor M is set to 10:32" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "in Playing Games, there is a reference to Whist, which has been largely superseded by Bridge" [hatmystery] maga asks, "does anybody have access to a copy of The Thirteen Clocks?" [hatmystery] maga | "Not so fast," the Golux said. "Half the places I have been to, never were. I make things up. Half the things I say are there cannot be found. When I was young I told a tale of buried gold and men from leagues around dug in the woods. I dug myself." [hatmystery] Miseri says, "man. I even posted a "compare and contrast..." thread on the author's forum, linking "Cold Iron", "Playing Games" and "Last Day of Summer"." [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "it's from 1950 so it's unlikely to be available as a free ebook" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I have a copy of the book" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I can't exactly type it all in, though" [hatmystery] maga says (to zarf), "just so long as someone can skim through it to see if they can catch anything" [hatmystery] * K-Y has joined the channel. [hatmystery] * Auda has joined the channel. [hatmystery] zarf says, "grr, must wrestle with code, sorry" [hatmystery] maga says, "no rush" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "I thought this was going to be palmistry" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "er, like palmistry" [hatmystery] baf exclaims, "!" [hatmystery] baf says, "The four paintings by the stairway in Doctor M. Each shows a scene from one of the four games." [hatmystery] maga says, "oh, I *wondered* what the point of those was" [hatmystery] baf | This unknown artist has chosen to portray a sundial in a garden overrun with weeds. [hatmystery] maga asks, "can you do anything with them, knowing that?" [hatmystery] baf | A colorful rendering of a chapel surrounded by a forest. In the foreground lies a fallen tree. [hatmystery] murphy_slaw asks, "Is the theory that this is four authors in collusion or an author writing four games?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The former, I think." [hatmystery] baf | The painting depicts some overgrown ruins in a dark forest. They and the surrounding fog are illuminated by a full moon. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Each of those is where the lost object was." [hatmystery] baf says, "No, the knife in Summer wasn't anywhere near the sundial." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Hm. OK, well, the other two match. The watch was in the ruins, and the moonstone was by the oak." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Was there anything by the sundial? Maybe he's missing something *else*" [hatmystery] maga says, "the sundial is where you find the key" [hatmystery] maga says, "oh oh" [hatmystery] maga says, "the book of stories" [hatmystery] maga asks, "it's found in Last Day of Summer, and appears again in Cold Iron. Who do you give the book to in Last Day?" [hatmystery] baf says, "The fourth painting is explicitly where the hat was lost. Mr. Third Option appears in the room to tell you so if you examine it." [hatmystery] baf says, "You give the book to the grocer." [hatmystery] maga says, "hm. it doesn't quite make sense that the grocer is the Cold Iron protagonist" [hatmystery] maga says, "although the knife puzzle in Cold Iron is basically a sundial" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The Cold Iron final protagonist is the *priest*. He *wrote* the stories." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That is, Cold Iron ends with the final PC - the priest - deciding to maybe write down some of his stories. Last Day involves recovering that book and giving it to the greengrocer." [hatmystery] maga says, "and Cold Iron is circular in a way that's not quite clear." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, there is an implication that you don't become Mr. Third Option without yourself being some kind of historical-level monster" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "But there's no evidence of this that I can think of in any of the four games." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Everyone in Playing Games is merely kind of a dick" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "To the extent that they exist at all." [hatmystery] maga says, "the only person I can think of who's a grocer is the guy in Beet the Devil" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ha ha. Was he a grocer? I thought he was the church farmhand" [hatmystery] maga says, "well, insofar as he deals in produce" [hatmystery] maga says, "it's pretty shaky but it's niggling at me" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "So probably a member of the Greengrocer's Union, at least" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I'm getting similar niggles from Mr. Lidell" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Who spends most of his time being shat on for being a useless git, and noticably fails to get redemption in standard endings." [hatmystery] maga says, "hat + pocketwatch is very suggestive there, yes" [hatmystery] maga says, "but I don't remember a watch in Mr. Lidell" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "You're right" [hatmystery] maga says, "the final poem is niggling, too" [hatmystery] maga | :| http://www.poetry-archive.com/c/life_is_but_a_dream.html [hatmystery] zarf says, "that is a classic acrostic, of course" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's also 'just' the final poem from Alice in Wonderland, though" [hatmystery] zarf says, "right" [hatmystery] maga says, "and the stuff I'm getting from it is mostly really vague themes like boats, autumn, stories" [hatmystery] maga says, "which only match one or two of the known games" [hatmystery] baf | "This one was about a man who stole the treasure of time. Even worse, as the legend goes, he then lost it, and it was split into two pieces. He is cursed to wander until he finds the pieces again, reunites them, and replaces it on the altar he stole it from." The greengrocer chuckles, then goes quiet again. [hatmystery] baf asks, "Two pieces: watch-jewel and chain?" [hatmystery] maga says, "oHO" [hatmystery] maga asks, "so what's the altar?" [hatmystery] baf says, "There's an altar in Summer." [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "the mantlepiece in Doctor M?" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "oh geez, now you can bring The Guardian into this if you squint" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "No wait, if the clue comes in summer, the chain in Dr M and the watch-jewel in Cold Iron ... the altar must be in Playing Games." [hatmystery] baf says, "Doctor M is the one game where you can reunite a watch and a chain." [hatmystery] baf asks, "So, something about the ruins?" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "I don't remember an altar in Playing Games" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Weren't the mazes in some sense altars?" [hatmystery] maga says, "pedestals" [hatmystery] maga says, "not really the same thing" [hatmystery] baf says, "Hm. From the ruins in Playing Games: 'Judging by how little is left of the walls, and how worn and weed-covered what's left is, this building must have stood a long time ago. There's no way to discern what its function might have been, but it does seem odd that it would be in the middle of a forest.'" [hatmystery] baf says, "That could be the chapel." [hatmystery] Miseri says, "Well, he gets the watch in Playing Games. Maybe he goes off to put it on an altar while our PC is playing games." [hatmystery] maga asks, "so they're all the same location, somehow?" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "which is also the Wabe from Trinity ..." [hatmystery] maga says (to Miseri), "but at that point we've got the watch-jewel" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Rebuilding the watch and then PUT WATCH ON MANTELPIECE seems like a worthwhile thing to try out" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Both with and without the mirror." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, not only could that be the chapel, it could be the Everlast Inn." [hatmystery] baf | There is no more room on the mantel. [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ah well" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That guy also claims to have left the rusty key in Looking Glass World." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Speaking, once again, of Mr. Lidell." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "There is one other timepiece that is split into two pieces, though" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The sundial itself - you take the gnomon." [hatmystery] maga says, "yeah, I am suspicious of the sundial motif" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw asks, "(straining) and a gnomon is shaped like a knife?" [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "Try sticking the knife into the sundial?" [hatmystery] baf | You jam the rusty knife into the sundial. Strangely, the direction of its shadow seems to have nothing to do with the position of the sun... [hatmystery] maga says (to murphy), "in Cold Iron you use a knife to make a sundial" [hatmystery] McMartin says (to baf), "oHO" [hatmystery] maga says (to baf), "*click*" [hatmystery] baf says, "that in Summer on putting the knife in the sundial" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Which tracks Cold Iron" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Can you follow that shadow, or go away from it?" [hatmystery] maga asks, "okay, which direction?" [hatmystery] baf says, "When the key is in the sundial, the time it indicates advances with your turns. With the knife, it reads 9:37 regardless." [hatmystery] baf says, "We have times from three games now." [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "What happens if we give, in Playing Games, the man the watch with those times set?" [hatmystery] baf says, "9:37, 9:50, and 10:32" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "And what time does it read when we first pick it up in Playing Games?" [hatmystery] baf says, "9:50" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "OK. And he insists we set it to noon." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's four times." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "noon is "when he lost it"" [hatmystery] baf says, "The one game we don't have a time from is Cold Iron." [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "What direction did the sundial in Cold Iron point?" [hatmystery] maga asks, "southwest, I think?" [hatmystery] baf says, "yeah" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's not trivial to translate back into a time, is it." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "If the sun is in the northeast that implies a time of year, not of day." [hatmystery] maga says, "the watch in Playing Games starts at 4:50" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The priest has a name, incidentally. Reverd Pearson." [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "well, unless you call noon north and take it from there" [hatmystery] maga asks, "or does it change each time?" [hatmystery] baf says, "Oh, excuse me" [hatmystery] baf says, "Not 9:50" [hatmystery] maga says, "he doesn't react to a clock set to 9:37 or 10:32" [hatmystery] maga says, "but we should include noon in that list" [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "southwest could be taken to mean 7:30 or something" [hatmystery] * Emily has joined the channel. [hatmystery] McMartin | The bush is a mass of prick-pointed, glossy leaves. It reminds you of another story. [hatmystery] McMartin | Every night a few sheep would disappear, or a few dogs. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Missing dogs and an eldritch bush, you say" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yeah, I see the Beet The Devil echo" [hatmystery] maga says (to Emily), "quickest @summon ever" [hatmystery] baf | He looks you up and down for a moment, stroking his unshaven chin. "Say, that knife reminds me of one I used to have. I don't suppose you'd trade it to me for my hat?" (That's odd, didn't you leave the knife in the garden? Nope, there it is, you still have it.) [hatmystery] murphy_slaw says, "curiouser and curioser" [hatmystery] McMartin | If it helps banish the fears of a lonely old Reverend, then all the better. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The priest in Cold Iron isn't the Reverd Pearson, then, msot likely" [hatmystery] baf asks, "Because Pearson had friends?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And because the implication is 'of some old reverend'" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "being lonely doesn't mean not having friends...." [hatmystery] baf says, "I was never really clear on how Cold Iron worked, temporally." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The priest here appears to be contemplating someone such as Pearson" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Er, wait, I'm confused" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Pearson is also Cold Iron" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "Maybe in Cold Iron, it's the book that travels through time. The farmer lives in the early 1700s, the old reverend in the late 1800s. The reverend writes the book, and it tumbles backwards through time to the parish library back when it only had 5 or 6 fiction books." [hatmystery] baf says, "The man in the hat in Summer specifically mentions having had a knife like yours a long time ago. This probably means he's the first PC from Cold Iron." [hatmystery] maga says, "no, it means he's the guy who gives you the knife in Cold Iron" [hatmystery] maga says, "you know, the guy in the hat" [hatmystery] baf says, "OK" [hatmystery] baf says, "I think it's pretty clear that the whole thing forms some kind of loop, anyway." [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "How did you trigger the 'stole the treasure of time' story?" [hatmystery] baf says, "snrk 'You put the basket of cranberries into the inkwell.'" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "I'm looking at the tester credits. Cold Iron jusa pseudonym. Playing Games is vague, talks about her writing group. The other two name, in common, 'Theophilus Alltext'." [hatmystery] baf says, "It's what the greengrocer says when you sit on the pew next to him." [hatmystery] Emily says (to Miseri), "yeah, so I wonder if that means they tested each other's games" [hatmystery] maga says, "we don't know for sure that there are literally four authors" [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "And they're all members of 'Pam Comfite''s writing group?" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Given that things like PR-IF exist, that isn't hugely implausible?" [hatmystery] Emily says, "well, no, but unless they broke comp rules, tehre are at least 2" [hatmystery] Emily says (to McMartin), "right" [hatmystery] baf asks, "Is 'alltext' a cue that we need to grab all text from the games?" [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "Wouldn't Sargent know?" [hatmystery] maga says (to Emily), "also Theophilus gets namechecked in Cana" [hatmystery] Emily turns towards Mis [hatmystery] maga exclaims, "which is a game about textuality!" [hatmystery] baf eyes Mis suspiciously [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Least impressive Mortal Kombat finisher ever" [hatmystery] maga says, "clearly we need to start putting matches between Mis' toes or something" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Where's Cana's Theophilus Alltext namecheck?" [hatmystery] Miseri asks (of baf), "Or it means we should read the Acts of the Apostles and/or the Gospel of Luke. I note that Summer thanks 'Peter for the foundation'. And what did Jesus say about Simon Peter, hmmm?" [hatmystery] maga says (to McMartin), "someone you overhear is the Luke-Acts author, identifying themselves by mentioning that zie'll have to write to Theophilus about that" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "Uh." [hatmystery] Miseri hides. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Aha" [hatmystery] maga says, "(there is no Alltext involved, and this is probably just a number of big old coincidences)" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "I swear, I only wish I were a part of this conspiracy because it looks awesome." [hatmystery] maga says, "but it is only fair to allow us to indulge our paranoia" [hatmystery] * Ellison has joined the channel. [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Indeed, that is half the fun" [hatmystery] maga says, "can Jesus make a hat so bizarre that even he cannot describe it" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I'm unaware of any major hat-related verses in the Bible" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "This may be ignorance; someone with a penchant for ridiculous Bible research should clearly get on this" [hatmystery] Emily says, "I further submit that this channel conversation should be published alongside ClubFloyd materials" [hatmystery] maga says, "yeah, we should be logging this" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's a solid suggestion" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "I've only gotten as far as Sirach in my reading." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "At the very least, someone should capture the recap so far." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I'm not sure how to do that in TF though" [hatmystery] vimes says, "i have the full log so far" [hatmystery] maga says (to vimes), "splendid" [hatmystery] vimes says, "(since may 25th I've logged my mud session, and I never mute channels)" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Going back a bit" [hatmystery] vimes says, "i'm no Allen" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Glulx games are difficult to textdump, but I have a modified version of Mrifk that may be able to do so to the Glulx games" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Cold Iron is Z-Code, and may repay a textdump to search for times" [hatmystery] vimes | http://ziz.org/~devesine/ifmud/hatmystery2011-11-06-2100.txt [hatmystery] baf says, "Bah: 'The altar stands empty along the eastern wall of the chapel. On the altar is a book.'" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Might be fun if you can put the gnomon on it" [hatmystery] maga asks (of baf), "Summer?" [hatmystery] maga asks, "hmm, the eastern wall. that's not normally where altars are in churches, right?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I have no idae" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Nor do I have any idea" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "depends. Once upon a time, it was customary for churches to be oriented towards the east." [hatmystery] maga says, "okay, that's what I was thinking about" [hatmystery] maga says, "still, it looks IF-puzzle-ish." [hatmystery] Miseri says, "That's fallen out of favour though. I think as far back as the 1700s, churches began to be oriented any way that was convenient." [hatmystery] maga asks, "If the theory about all the places being the same place is right, does that mean we can find the altar in another game?" [hatmystery] maga says, "probably Playing Games" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Hang on a sec" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Is the an altar in the attic in Doctor M?" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "I wonder if the angel in Doctor M will talk about killing Egyptian first-born sons...." [hatmystery] maga says, "hm, apparently not in Playing Games, at least" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Blood and thunder. My copy of the ztools is missing." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I want to disassemble Cold Iron now to look for times." [hatmystery] zarf says, "disassembly seems like a big step" [hatmystery] zarf says, "like, you might get a bunch of stuff that comes after times" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "It's true, but we're already in ARG territory." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, Glulx is much more resistant to this stuff" [hatmystery] zarf says, "heh" [hatmystery] zarf says, "my fault" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I *meant* to keep the glulx disassembler up to date..." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Well, it's fundamentally a more flexible format" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I have patches to Mrifk, at least" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That will let it handle Unicode, and thus most of what I7 produces, but even there are occasional extremely dynamic constructs that just make it throw up its hands and be unable to distinguish code and data." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "(This is, ultimately, how DavidW and I managed to beat Luster)" [hatmystery] zarf says, "well, http://ifarchive.org/if-archive/infocom/tools/ztools/ " [hatmystery] Ellison says, "you guys beat Luster? nice" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yeah. I'm mostly just aggravated that I don't have them on Iodine right now." [hatmystery] McMartin says (to Ellison), "It turns out the unreferancable pedestals can be referenced by naming them pedestal1, pedestal2, etc." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "He changed the printed names but didn't add understand clauses" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "I still keep a copy of PFE just because it works so smashingly with txtdmp or whatever" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "PFE?" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "I got stuck with the goblet and dye part" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ah yes. That was also a massive parser failure, though I ultimately managed to get it." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "IIRC, it was 'fill cup' because you couldn't reference the water" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "it's an abandoned free text editor. has a nice 'execute command to window' function." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Aha" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Blargh, ifarchive not resolving" [hatmystery] McMartin manually resets with the jmac mirror [hatmystery] zarf asks (of mcm), "DNS problem again?" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I think we're going to change the DNS service over thanksgiving, try to fix that" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Looks like" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, Cold Iron hides a secret" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I've disassembled just enough to be sure of this much. We haven't found it yet properly, though" [hatmystery] zarf says, "huh" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Gurer vf na vagrenpgvoyr jngpu va gur tnzr fbzrjurer" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I am now trying to tear the game apart in-game to find this for real." [hatmystery] baf says, "If you find it, try putting it on the altar. That's the one game where we have an honest to goodness altar to fulfill the story on." [hatmystery] maga says, "in Cold Iron? I thought it was in Summer" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "OK, I found the nonsense command that triggers what I mentioned. This implies there's a riddle we've missed." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yup, that confirms it" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The final moves are in Cold Iron" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "But we've cheated." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "There's a nonsense command in the walkthrough we have not yet deduced." [hatmystery] McMartin | *** You have won the four games of Hat, Pin, Jewel, and Watch *** [hatmystery] Ellison says, "yay cheating" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Whatever we seek for the missing step is *not* in Cold Iron." [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "Perhaps there's a secret command to be gained from each of the other games?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Possible - alternately, we need to assemble clues - syllables, maybe - from the other games to learn what it is and where to deploy it." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And Cold Iron can't do this on its own, even with disassembly. We've basically solved the endgame already with the times and the actions of the altar." [hatmystery] zarf says, "we already got the 'put knife in *' idea from one game" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yup, and the times, and the winning ritual involves the 'reuniting the stole treasure of time' thing with the altar." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "*stolen" [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "hm, is it possible to set the time on the watch in 'Dr M'?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The trick - the piece we haven't solved - is the command that makes a different command actually work instead of merely hinting at it" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I believe it is." [hatmystery] Miseri says, "Hmmm ... in Dr M, the people you kill are : a young man, a tramp and an heiress, right? Might there be a connection with the PCs in the other games there? I note that Playing Games is the only one written by someone with a feminine name." [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "... what are the names of the people again?" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "And the PC in 'Summer' is specifically a young lad." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I just tested the nonsense command in Last Day of Summer and it loses you the game" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Hm, XYZZY does the same. Furthermore, it sets the time to 5:57 PM" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I remember xyzzy doing that" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "can z-code games get the system time? (I imagine they can). would it be too silly to set your computer to so-and-so time and open up the game? (maybe they did some kind of Spellbreaker/Mage thing except time based)" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Z-Code cannot get the system time." [hatmystery] Ellison says, "gotcha" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The secret lies in a Glulx game now, I'm pretty sure of it." [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "Ooh, might Reverend Pearson be listed in the books in Dr M?" [hatmystery] zarf says, "glulx can get the system time, but I don't know if all interpreters have been updated to support that feature yet" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "Also: Tolmy Cubbins ... the greengrocer addresses the PC in Summer as 'the Cubbins boy ... Tolmy, is it?'" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yup" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Things Last Day of Summer suggests - decorating the hat" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Can we put a flower on it, perhaps?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, the preacher in Last Day is just called Preacher." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Aha" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "OK, well, I decorated the hat, but it was different from Dr. M's decorations, and it doesn't seem to do anything other than make the PC happy." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "OK. Every clue I can manage to find in Last Day of Summer I can also map to something we've already done in Cold Iron." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "There are two, possibly three things that I have to do in Cold Iron to get the Final Victory, but which I cannot map to clues we have already discerned." [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Shall I rot13 them here, or hold off until I can identify them?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Or until someone else finds them, I guess" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Hmm. I wonder if mapping the maze will do anything" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "AHA" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "OK, that's the nonsense command." [hatmystery] zarf asks, "from what?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That clue is in Doctor M." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Set the watch to 9:37" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Now there's only one clue left to find" [hatmystery] zarf says, "oh, obviously" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but we found that time over in Last Day of Summer" [hatmystery] zarf says, "no, not sarcastic" [hatmystery] zarf says, "just didn't think of it" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The final clue must be in Playing Games somewhere." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's the only game that hasn't yielded up something important." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "But it doesn't recognize the command." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Hmmm" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "There's a brook in Playing Games. I wonder if we can make a wreath and become invisible." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ha ha, yes, it's holly" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And that's the final hint" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Playing Games tells you the piece you missed, but you need to have played Cold Iron to know what to do." [hatmystery] zarf says, "okay" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "You can make an invisibility wreath in Playing Games's prologue, just like in Cold Iron" [hatmystery] zarf asks, "so are you going to write this up?" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That puts all the pieces together" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I shall" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "But it's 7:30 PM so I should probably eat dinner first." [hatmystery] zarf says, "let me pull my mask off first" [hatmystery] zarf says, "zzziip! It's yor Reverend!" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I thought that was Miseri" [hatmystery] zarf says, "Cold Iron is mine" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Aha" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Cunning" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "OK, in brief, and rot-13ed for the benefit of those who want to work it out on their own" [hatmystery] zarf says, "Playing Games is Kevin Jackson-Mead, LDOS is Doug, Doctor M is Mike Hilborn" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ubyyl evghny va Pbyq Veba jbexf va Cynlvat Tnzrf" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Qbvat guvf yrgf lbh sbyybj gur zna va Cynlvat Tnzrf, juvpu fubjf lbh jung gb qb gb gur bnx gerr va Pbyq Veba" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Qbvat gung trgf lbh gur cbpxrgjngpu" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Erperngvat gur fhaqvny sebz Pbyq Veba va YQBF tvirf lbh gur gvzr lbh arrq gb frg gur jngpu gb" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Frggvat gung jngpu va Qbpgbe Z tvirf lbh gur evghny jbeq" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Frggvat gung jngpu va Pbyq Veba yrgf lbh cresbez gur raqtnzr" [hatmystery] McMartin asks, "Is that the size of it?" [hatmystery] zarf says, "yes" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, well done in that even with cheating, cheating doesn't let you construct the solution backwords." [hatmystery] zarf says, "yeah. sorry for playing dumb in there -- I wanted to give a warning about txdumping" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "You did a reasonably good job even with that - string dumps give the answers but not *how* to get them, and only half the results." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "You could have obfuscated it more, but this is perhaps excessive" [hatmystery] zarf says, "in retrospect I could have put together Cold Iron in such a way that -- yes" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I didn't have to make the magic word visible." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "One key thing though is that 'use memory economy' is extremely powerful at that." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Since without it every action rule is in the string table." [hatmystery] zarf says, "I'll keep that in mind" [hatmystery] zarf says, "if I'd cared, I would have obfuscated the generated I6 code manually and recompiled it :)" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That, I imagine, would be *even more* effective, yes." [hatmystery] Ellison says, "I was so turned off by Doctor M's premise that I probably didn't give it a fair shake, but now I am glad to know that people liked it so much because Mike Hilborn is a very nice fellow" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Numeric puzzles are superb for obfuscation though because they are not easy to discern from just the data" [hatmystery] zarf says, "and this is his first game, too. I am very happy that it did so well" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "It was very technically well done" [hatmystery] zarf says, "we deliberately left each author a lot of latitude, and it wound up that we all came at the problem from different places" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "As polemic, it doesn't really work as well - baf covers most of why it doesn't, and I'd only add in that he doesn't give the 'mercy' argument a properly fair shake" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "I enjoyed Cold Iron, too, although reading another person's review of it, I went, oh, I think I completely misunderstood it... but I didn't really care." [hatmystery] zarf says, "I was trying to write a very short Zarf game. Kevin wanted to just build some puzzles, like Gleaming the Cube last year. Doug wanted to learn I7. And Mike said 'okay, I have this idea for a big complicated game!'" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Kevin should publish his maze engine code, if indeed it was maze engine code" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And not just a really complex series of rooms" [hatmystery] Ellison says (to Doug), "good job to you, too! (when you likely eventually read the log of this)" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I don't remember. I think it's a series of rooms, with an NPC object in them" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "I thought the basic mechanic in Playing Games was interesting, but when I got to the third room or whatever, I went, aw, c'mon!" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Xabjvat gung V xarj gur frperg jbeq, V unq guvf fvaxvat srryvat gung gur funcr bs gur znmrf jbhyq fcryy bhg gur frperg jbeq." [hatmystery] zarf says, "geez no" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Aspiring game authors: please do not do this. It was already tiresome in the first three Might and Magic games." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And at least those had automappers for two-thirds of them." [hatmystery] zarf says, "this whole scheme was Kevin's idea. I wrote the metapuzzle scenario after some discussion at a PRIF meetup" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ha ha, random example turns out to be accurate" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, if Doctor M was a first game, that is *astounding*. He did a lot of pretty complex stuff" [hatmystery] zarf says, "yep" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "He should be prodded to write more" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And *now* I actually have something to write in my Comp Review epilogues!" [hatmystery] zarf says, "we had a couple of Secret Metapuzzle Writer Workshop sessions, but it's not like we wrote each other's games" [hatmystery] zarf says, "just beta-tested" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I feel kind of bad for continually dumping on Kevin's games" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "But the metapuzzle thing is fun, so kudos for that" [hatmystery] zarf says, "also, when people started talking about the connections to Liddell and Beet the Devil, we're all 'uh, whoa, what?'" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "yeah, good work" [hatmystery] zarf says, "we had no idea this would wind up being ReverendComp" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "This did in fact kind of result in the four games being a little less obviously connected than they might otherwise be." [hatmystery] zarf says, "we were hoping people would run with it *without* our nudge, obviosuly" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That would have been fantastic, but not in a 38-entry comp and not when people are going to figure it's the games about detectives that are the ones that are linked" [hatmystery] zarf says, "like the USB drive puzzle, everybody just blew past it" [hatmystery] zarf says, "'look! hats! ha ha okay'" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "heh" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "yeah, a mysterious unsigned note about Connections between games would have had everyone looking at Return to Camelot and Death of Schlig" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "'Why the Hell are these characters detectives'" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "maybe if it was clear that everyman with a hat was Indiana Jones, I would have paid more attention" [hatmystery] zarf says, "Doug suggested, about half-seriously, that we not give anything away, and write *another* set of linked games for next year's Comp which clued people in about this year" [hatmystery] zarf says, "if any of us were remotely that patient, that would have been epic" [hatmystery] zarf says, "but we are not. No." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Ha ha ha" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yeah, no" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "The dangers of someone like me deciding to use your game to test the Mrifk patches are alarmingly high" [hatmystery] zarf says, "let me say, thank you for working through everything!" [hatmystery] zarf says, "we did it all for you! as it turns out." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Also, next time you see Kevin, remind him that if you put the blindfold back on, you can still see perfectly fine" [hatmystery] zarf says, "ha" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "heh" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That's not as epic as the fact that you can put the basket of cranberries into the inkwell, though" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That said, I don't think it's reasonable without some *very* heavy-handed cluing that people will conclude there are things connected to one another." [hatmystery] zarf says, "we tried to judge the hand-weight" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "This was, after all, a comp with something like six games about detectives out of time and space, and with two games about Australian children playing hide-and-seek variants." [hatmystery] Ellison says, "ha ha" [hatmystery] zarf says, "we got it wrong, but it was impossible to know in advance" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Yeah" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "And those two hide-and-seek games I was randomly assigned back-to-back" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I thought the "man with the hat" and his circle of exchanged items was good enough, and then Mike put in those four paintings and I was like 'whoa! Overkill! No, leave them in, it'll probably be okay'" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "I spent longer than I care to admit trying to enter the paintings, tapestry-style" [hatmystery] zarf says, "and the entire back story in Last Day of Summer, with the reverend and the book, that was Doug's idea -- I didn't build it as part of the core concept." [hatmystery] zarf says, "but I love the way it works thematically with Cold Iron" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "I think the last metapuzzle in a comp was Exhibition" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "from '99" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "and that too involved paintings" [hatmystery] zarf says, "I don't remember what was meta about that" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "there was some secret to be derived from figuring out the order of the paintings" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "as related to their locations in the gallery" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "so there was also a logic puzzle of sorts in drawing out the order from the characters' descriptions of each painting" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "That seems more self-contained" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "(Also, I hope baf doesn't have autorot13 on as he worked out most of the first half of what we worked out)" [hatmystery] McMartin says, "Oh, also also, zarf, I didn't see anyone twig that Cold Iron was a Zarf game." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "You've gotten much better at cloaking your Zarfitude." [hatmystery] McMartin says, "#band-name Stealth Zarf" [hatmystery] Miseri says, "Actually, in a conversation with Tale a week or two ago, he said that if he had to guess, he'd finger Cold Iron for the zarf game." [hatmystery] Ellison says, "what a jerky thing to say" [hatmystery] Miseri asks, "eh?" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "eh, just leaving something for him to see if he reads the recap" [hatmystery] zarf says, "be nice" [hatmystery] K-Y says, "I don't suppose that flaming paper bag on the porch as I came in was left for Tale as well" [hatmystery] Ellison says, "heh" [hatmystery] baf says, "So I just got home and I'm trying to catch up on recap here" [hatmystery] baf asks, "Has the whole thing been logged somewhere?" [hatmystery] baf says, "There was talk of logging earlier." [hatmystery] baf says, "I see a mention of making an invisibility wreath in Playing Games. I was trying to do that on the bus ride home, but couldn't find any holly." [hatmystery] Ellison says, "looks like the bush at End of Path (where the trap door is) is holly"